"Why it is necessary that we be able to choose evil for us to have free will, while it is not necessary that God be able to choose evil for Him to have free will?" was the actual question.
For starters, I must admit my limits and refer my readers (all one of me) to Lewis or Augustine, Bonhoeffer or Athanasius for a detailed answer. Dr. Craig is certainly well thought out, but I always like to think things through myself.
Short answer: Good is defined by who God is, His very nature. Evil is turning from or disobeying God, and as we are like but separate entities, we have that choice. A choice that God does not have. God cannot turn from Himself, though He may do as He pleases.
Longer answer:
Short answer: Good is defined by who God is, His very nature. Evil is turning from or disobeying God, and as we are like but separate entities, we have that choice. A choice that God does not have. God cannot turn from Himself, though He may do as He pleases.
Longer answer:
Let us begin by defining God's qualities, as best we can quickly (listing them all is of course impossible) - Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, (and Good) So, Infinite, Outside of all time and space, ie, not bound by them, and being God, that is, uncreated and the Source of all Creation, we can agree that He is the Ultimate Reality. He is so full of being that He gives it away. God simply Is. It is indeed His very name.
Now, is what God has Freewill, as we would describe it? No, as we humans would describe it, I think not.
If God is the Ultimate Reality and knows everything, then He certainly knows Himself. Complete self awareness is something that we cannot imagine, particularly in an infinite being. God is not in doubt as to what to do, He simply does. He is not at all in doubt when anything is put before Him for who is there to present something novel to the Creator? So, we come back to the fact that since He is the Source of all and is outside, apart from, all time and space, there is nothing that God could really choose to do that is outside of His own nature, which is itself, goodness. The source of goodness. It would mean there was something other than Himself, outside of Himself. This is not the place for an argument in Dualism, but I think its safe to say, God is alone (in a Trinity). (The true term, God actually has no plural.)
Now we must go about defining Good and Evil. Good is defined by who God is; all that God made was declared good. All of Creation is good. Christian theology tells us that God cannot make evil. Out of something Pure, only pure may come. Everything that we would call good usually means, uncorrupted, fresh, alive, beautiful. But because the created thing is not eternal, and infinite (1) it is therefore open to choice, this or that, being or reverting back to nothingness. What this means is that just as God Is, and good is, evil is not. Evil is not the opposite good, it is the lack of or the perversion of it.
The devil, even was once the most brilliant of angels, and now, as Lewis points out, is merely God's ape. He can't make anything himself, he can only twist what is God's. Even the pleasures that you think sinful, are goods used in the wrong way or at the wrong time. Food is good, food taken in and of itself, apart from the intention God made of it, ie, as nourishment, is bad. Gluttony is nasty. Greed as well. Money isn't evil, but loving it is. Sex is good, but separating it from the vows of marriage and bonds of the other loves due the marriage bed is a sin. Only God is infinite and good. Loving anything created (unless it is ordained, eg your neighbor - he/she is created in the image of God) is simply putting eternal hope on something that isn't eternal. You are separating it from the fullness of its original intention. Note, even love, without justice, faith and honor leads to all sorts of envy, pride, greed and hate.
So now we have four things: God IS, therefore good IS, evil IS NOT, and God's "freewill" is not quite the same as our freewill. God simply cannot violate His nature anymore than you can. Sinning doesn't mean defying your nature, it means more of, defying the nature of God in you. God doesn't have 'the choice to do evil' anymore than you have the choice to become a giraffe.
Lets sum up. Freewill does not mean just choosing between good and evil, as though there were only two choices, in this we have greatly limited ourselves. The truth of it is far more complex. You must choose this good or that good, this evil or that evil. With what we have discovered about good, there is an infinite number of "goods" available to us. All of creations sings it. I can choose a myriad of ways to help my neighbor, but far fewer ways to cause him ill. As a doctor in Iraq once said, 'Violence (and evil) are for those who lack imagination...' (2)
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
(1) Christ is God and is eternal and infinite - See Lewis' Trinity
(2) "Violence is for those who lack imagination. Does your country have no imagination?" Anonymous Iraqi doctor speaking on the war.
(2) "Violence is for those who lack imagination. Does your country have no imagination?" Anonymous Iraqi doctor speaking on the war.
3 comments:
I think there is a greater number of evils than goods out there. Harm can be very creative... you can kill your neighbour (an a plethora of creative ways), you could kill those he cares about (same creativity applies), you could steal or destroy his possessions, or you could rearrange them in a creative way to make them useless.. There are all sorts of other pranks and violations you could do to harm him. Far more than to good you could do him I believe.
It seems to me that the crux of this issue is the people who ask that question ("Why it is necessary that we be able to choose evil for us to have free will, while it is not necessary that God be able to choose evil for Him to have free will?") are committing an error right from the start: they are taking two similar yet different objects and comparing them, expecting the results to be the same. But they aren't. You can't just put man's nature and character onto God and expect Him to be the same - He is infinitely more! I don't know how great the following illustration will be, but I think it helps.
The issue of free will depends on two things: 1)how you define free will; and 2)the nature of the thing that has free will. Let me focus on the second point. My cats have free will. They can go outside, come inside, sleep, play, eat dry food or wet food or drink water, or.... You get the point. Their free will, though, is not like mine. It is restricted by their very nature - they are cats, not humans. Just because they are not 'free' to make the same choices I am free to make doesn't mean they don't have free will. You can't compare them to us because they are totally different creations. Similarly, I don't think we can compare ourselves to God in this way because we are different to God (though we are made in His image, we are still so much less!). The free will we enjoy is different to the free will God enjoys - it is a product of our nature! Now, as God is entirely holy and good and just, making a decision that runs counter to these qualities is impossible for Him as it is not in His nature. That doesn't mean He has no free will, just that His free will is different from ours*. After all, "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent." (Numbers 23:19a). 'Nuff said.
*A proper discussion on what free will actually is would be helpful, but beyond the scope of this comment.
DaveE, EXCELLENT! That is great, its a great way to say it! (I was trying to say it wasn't in God's nature, but I don't think I made that very clear, and you have. Thanks!!)
Pastor Takeshi included, "Good is defined by who God is." Which is what I was trying to say, and DaveE made a better stab at it.
David (same DaveE?) I can't agree about there being more evil than good. I didn't say one couldn't be creative when being evil, but if we tend to think of there being more evil than good, it may be simply that that is what we have witnessed. I have never seen a kangaroo, but I know there are a lot of them.
Doing evil to my neighbor, I can basically break it down to four things, hinder, steal, kill or destroy.
Being good, I can help, give, care, love, relate, commune, support, nurture, the list goes on.
I know we can be specific, eg. kick him in the shins, or punch in the face, steal his watch or kill his family (good grief, you watch too many movies). But we can be equally specific with good, all depending on your imagination. Bake a cake or bake cookies, plant a garden or just sit and watch ice melt together. Talk over dinner or have a good debate (over the internet) or with a pipe in your teeth (heh). Darn someone's socks even, dry their tears or visit someone in the hospital (or prison).
The good one can do is limitless. The evil you can do is limited only to stealing something or someone they have, killing (body or heart), or destroying something they already have, or hindering something they are yet to get (though you couldn't successfully do that if God is determined for someone to have something.)
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